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User talk:Mortain87
Welcome Hi, welcome to the ! Probably nobody has yet looked at your edit to the Quests page, but someone will. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! CompleCCity (talk) 09:47, September 6, 2019 (UTC) Wiki code in tables Hi! I know, it's done this way on several pages, but you can omit the … tags if you place a space before the (e.g.) "+1" instead. Bad: |+1 |-1 Good: | +1 | -1 :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 07:48, September 30, 2019 (UTC) Replies Put them onto my talk page, as I prefer one topic in one place. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 20:25, October 18, 2019 (UTC) Creature categories Hi! Please refrain from adding e.g. Category:Bears to the Black Bear – it's already in the black bears, so it's sort of redundant, but if there's need to add it to bears itself, this will be done by the automatically one day. Sorry, but I will revert those edits. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 09:32, October 20, 2019 (UTC) Revert justified I've explained the reasons on my talk page. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:37, October 21, 2019 (UTC) Githyanki Hi. I guess, you created Githyanki (Race) to have something distinguishable from single creatures by the identical name. Actually, I don't know how to handle this correctly. It would be good to have some sort of overview articles for base creatures. Currently, there are some disambiguations for these, some redirect to the categories. The latter ones should become that overview, as probably done with sirines, and theoretically the former ones, too. Problem with githyanki is that there's no difference between singular and plural. So, what do you think of combining both articles, the overview and the specific creature by the name githyanki? So, to spare an extra "race" article? (With the given example of the sirine, this also could be implemented on the overview and the page that uses the singular redirect to that one.) By the way, the correct spelling of your article would be "Githyanki (race)", with a lowercase "race". -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:33, October 23, 2019 (UTC) :Yes I think it is a marvelous idea to combine it directly in the overview / category article but I didn't want to start something different for you to have more change again. This way the category page is also not so empty besides being a list. But then all creatures article should follow the same pattern for consistency reasons. The sirines article would be too long to be an category article. Do you agree? :And yes unfortunately githyanki has no difference between singular and plural and I really tried to find the plural form. It was quite aggravating to have to add the (race) part. I had used the orcs / orc as an example. --Mortain87 (talk) 20:59, October 23, 2019 (UTC) ::Oh … If changes by me on edits by you discouraged you from editing or creating stuff – that is not good, and I apologize for it. Please, don't think this way and go on with wikiing here. If there are particular things, we could always discuss them. ::As for : these aren't "articles" per se and usually should indeed have only a short introductory note telling what the category is about or how it's used, followed by the list of contained pages. If you want to have real information, that's always on an article in the main , perhaps by the same name as a related category. ::Of course creature articles then should be consistent. I tried to start something like that as a project with the mentioned sirines, though those need more work. Currently, I've picked the gnolls – give me some time (could mean: days), and we'll see how it could work. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 07:34, October 24, 2019 (UTC) Item group Hi! The item infobox parameter item_group is intended to be replaced with general. Please don't add it anymore to infoboxes you're editing. Thanks! -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 14:21, November 19, 2019 (UTC) : Ok thanks for the tipp. I am trying to have some consistency here. At least for the listing. I will not add item_group anymore and add only general, but what is the exact class I should use? The most specific one? I mean am I doing it correctly? --Mortain87 (talk) 14:36, November 19, 2019 (UTC) ::Another hint: that very infobox is the one best documented, with an extensive "how to fill" section. ;) ::As for your question: In many cases, general can use the unidentified name of an item. Sometimes, e.g. for miscellaneous items, the NI "category" can be used (see items by type (incomplete)). Sometimes it's on you to decide what would match best. Use singular, lower case (doesn't really matter) and no link brackets; categorization should work automatically, at least for what's implemented here; this list can and will be expanded. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:05, November 19, 2019 (UTC) ::And link brackets and "File:" for the standard infobox images isn't consistency but redundant code, not needed. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:23, November 19, 2019 (UTC) ::: Duly noted. I will probably not change that in all the places I have changed it to, but in the future I will leave it out. BTW I am making some changes you made like some bows from general = bows to shortbows so that they would only appear in category shortbows and not both. Is this ok? --Mortain87 (talk) 21:38, November 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::Of course, this is okay – and exactly how it's meant to be done. As you may have noticed: if you're giving "short bows" (no uppercase starting letter, two words and plural), it automatically displays "Shortbow"; such fallback options are, however, not implemented for everything somebody might fill the field with. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 08:33, November 20, 2019 (UTC) Areas Hi! I don't know if Areas is worth the effort you're currently putting into … I've just started something similar, though in a different namespace, Baldur's Gate Wiki:Game source files/ARE/Area files. You could also take a look at a different concept for the future of that page I had once in mind, User:CompleCCity/Areas. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:08, November 20, 2019 (UTC) :I didn't even know that the other two existed and since Areas is properly called so, why don't we work together to combined all three of them into one. I would like to do something similar to the World Map as it has been already done for BG1 but for EET. I wish I had access to the html files or whatever files the wiki uses because I would love to programmatically adjust so that all pages are consistent. How does your bot work? Does it have access to these files and images? So many questions... sorry. But yeah let's think of a way to combine those three pages into one, what do you say. I really like the Areas because of the naming. --Mortain87 (talk) 13:17, November 20, 2019 (UTC) ::"So many questions..." :) ::The game source files page just follows the concept of that category and should only contain the real game data, nothing from mods or the web; so, it will get the article links and nothing more. ::The mainspace article, however, could indeed keep the mod codes and perhaps list more names for the areas from all sources, such as the Dudleyville walkthrough and EET map entries. As the above mentioned page already has five columns, those would be too much for it, as well. On this article, we'd have to see how a large table would work best. (I hate those scroll bars when the table width exceeds the space available. Maximum allowed width without scrollbar would be 716px, perhaps minus some pixels for table padding. Well, probably it doesn't work without …) ::What do you mean by doing the same as on World Map for EET? Create a "World Map (EET)"? And which "same"? What HTML or other code/files are you talking about? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:37, November 20, 2019 (UTC) ::Perhaps this helps you. Needs an expansion … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:38, November 20, 2019 (UTC) :::Regarding the tables I like the one you made (User:CompleCCity/Areas) the best because it contains basically everything you need to know. Since I also really dislike wide tables, we could save space by combining the link of the Wiki article with the Area description like I did in Areas with the Common name. This way we save a whole column. Additionally what you are trying to do in Baldur's Gate Wiki:Game source files/ARE/Area files "it also serves as an indicator for the specific game it was introduced by." could be done in the same table just by putting the appropriate icon of the game the map appeared the first time in making that column as wide as the icons are. This way we would have the information of all three in the Areas page. :::The World Map project I was thinking of doing for EET would have been something similar to what you can see under Geographical table map in World Map but with this map: EET world map. Since mods should not be included I could imagine something for SOD, BGII and TOB instead. What exactly do you mean by: "Perhaps this helps you. Needs an expansion" isn't all the information for that page in World Map? :::With accessing files I mean instead of working with the wiki interface is there a way to access the files directly so that a mass change could be done automatically? --Mortain87 (talk) 11:56, November 21, 2019 (UTC) ::::Coming back to this tomorrow. Still, one question right now: perhaps I haven't understood what you're wanting to do – which "mass" of files/pages do you want to change? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 21:44, November 21, 2019 (UTC) :::::It's actually a separate topic. For example now that I would like to add the 222 achievement icons it would take me ages to do so via wiki interface. Is there a way to access the server files directly via ftp or something? But also for all the items we have. Very few follow the infobox the way it should be done and I though by accessing the actual files I could extract the information we have and put it in the way it should be done automatically. That's how I thought you would use your bot. --Mortain87 (talk) 07:07, November 22, 2019 (UTC) Point by point (or so) *My sandbox article already has a column for the game, though uses letters instead of icons. If you want to make it an icon, the row needs some additional code if it's to be sortable: | data-sort-value="1" | | data-sort-value="2" | | data-sort-value="3" | | data-sort-value="4" | | data-sort-value="5" | ::Use "bg1ee wo sod" only for those areas that are new to the Enhanced Edition – one icon should suffice for each area. This order follows the scheme that's used for e.g. item locations, with The Black Pits (plot-wise chronologically) first. I'd make two tables, for BG1 and BG2. For the latter I suggest this order: | data-sort-value="1" | | data-sort-value="2" | | data-sort-value="3" | | data-sort-value="4" | | data-sort-value="5" | *As for names and descriptions: we should at least integrate the EE-official "cheat code" names from BGEE.lua. I'm not sure if it's the best idea to "hide" the article names behind something from somewhere else, but all aliases could be combined in one column. Hm, perhaps this needs more thinking on my side … *Haven't looked into this, yet, so I can't tell if the non-original-BG1 tilesets make a large, matching area map as well. If not, then such a geographical table perhaps makes no sense for SoD and BG2. *I thought, you might want to include the code behind that other map I linked, so that your world map is clickable and links to the area articles. *There's no ftp-access, as far as I know. *You can use to upload 20 files at once, with all of them using the same description and licensing. If the description holds Category:Achievement icons, they're then in it already. Only downside: no individual description. *A bot is able to e.g. unify infoboxes on all item pages, but – besides some minor edits – I've decided to not do this now, as that infobox still is in the process of an overhaul, and also I wanted to go through them manually to apply other changes as well – most items need a clean-up, not only for the infobox. (And I'm no real expert for bots, and much that could be done with it is – as of now – sadly above my capabilities.) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:14, November 22, 2019 (UTC) :Once we are done with the achievement project we could takle the areas project. What do you say? Speaking of areas, I can't believe your image perfectionism didn't make you change many of the really bad maps uploads... :-- Added by Mortain87 (talk • ) ::Areas is probably the largest project of all – everything in the game is based on them: you encounter creatures in areas; you find items, including spell scrolls, in areas; you get quests in areas and have to visit areas to solve them. I think, this is the reason why I haven't started it yet (besides some minor steps). ::As for the images: take a large outdoor map – AR5300.tis, converted to *.png, has a filesize of 39.7 MB. I haven't checked for the largest filesize when using the area viewer and include the overlays … The maximum allowed on wikis is 10 MB. So, what's the best solution to get this down? Reduce the resolution? Convert to *.jpg? The latter still will yield a file too large, so quality has to be reduced on top. 95% might be okay. But is this the way I want to have it? ::Then – which map to include where? With annotations? With creatures and treasure? Infobox, gallery? How to deal with multiple floor locations? When to combine, when to split articles for them? ::Some ideas: ::*slideshow for multiple floors ::*large, clickable (to connected areas) maps in a "Points of interest" section ::*something like Ineth started on the Icewind Dale Wiki – making screenshots of the whole area with all creatures revealed and merge them into one large image, then see how to deal with the size (see Easthaven for an example). ::These are also the reasons why I (almost) haven't touched the infobox, yet – which could use an overhaul; perhaps I'll go in the near future and integrate a title icon for world map icons. ::So, besides completing the table(s) – what are the next steps you had in mind? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:38, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :::Yes the areas project is the heart of most walkthroughs exactly for the reasons you mentioned. It is what glues everything together. :::The 10MB restriction is quite aggravating! And the slideshow for multiple floors is one of the ideas I had too, also for the World Map I had in mind, where several places are found within a map. Could you elaborate what you mean with clickable maps? I am very curious to know that functionality! :::Regarding my next steps: The thing is that I don't know all the capabilities of the wiki. Before I found this wiki, I was dreaming of starting a website for the sole purpose of making an extensive BG Saga walkthrough with linkable image regions. Being able to filter what you look for in the image, like loot, creatures and so on in form of layers on top of the image, but then decided to improve this wiki as well as I could. I would love to have these kind of features here, but I think I need to learn what the capabilities of this wiki are first. :::What Ineth did is impressive (sounds like a s**t load of work), but still not very useful since the creatures are unrecognizable, and you don't see what is unique rather than what are spawn places and where loot could be found. :::The thought alone is quite overwhelming but knowing that you would be working on that too, sounds encouraging.--Mortain87 (talk) 11:00, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::Ineth's idea is not exactly to represent all enemies or neutral creatures in their exact places – more to give the image more life (and better lighting), rather than a static background graphic. (Making exterior shots of e.g. Candlekeep buildings, like I did during my latest attempt of a playthrough, already includes this.) And you have to admit that a "map" with blue and red meeples simply looks bad. And containers (some aren't even visible at all) for large maps isn't very useful as they are in most cases too small to be noticed. ::::That Baldur's Gate World Map was just a start from somebody ages ago. Hoover your mouse over the upper left corner to see the idea behind. You find better examples (perhaps not for the included code) on another wiki: the [https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pillars_of_Eternity_world_map Pillars of Eternity world map], with a points of interest section as I had in mind at Ondra's Gift. ::::-- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:30, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :::::There is no doubt that the map with notes imported from Near Infinity looks ugly as sin! I image something similar to Near Infinity capabilities, where you can filter what to show on the map... that would be nice but in form of labeled creatures, maybe additionally to Ineth's idea (with additional labels). :::::OMG THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I HAD IN MIND!!!! I did not understand what you meant with the World Map but now I get it! Thanks!--Mortain87 (talk) 11:39, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::::Many thanks! ::::::Will you continue that work for other maps? And … now, that it's implemented on the regular page, I don't think we need that extra page anymore. On the other hand, if you think such is useful and easier to maintain, we could "transclude" it otherwise on the main article, rather than having the same code twice. What do you think? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 14:24, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::::Yes I will continue for the newer maps: SOD and BGIIEE but not for the old ones. Also the reason why I moved it down. If you think it's ok I think it makes more sense. ::::::If "transclude" means to somehow integrate it using the other page then yes, otherwise just delete the one page. --Mortain87 (talk) 14:31, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :::::::As it's a lot of code and will become even more when you add the other maps, then we'll transclude it. Is the code in fact identical? Because, when I do this, it will be removed from World Map. :::::::For the general layout – later. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 14:38, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Yes the code is identical. ::::::::Ok then where should I do the other maps? In World Map and then we make a separate page like the one for BG:EE? :we need an outdent template … I do it manually, now I've moved it to World map (Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition). I suggest, you continue this as World map (Siege of Dragonspear) and World map (Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition). As I suppose, you're going to copy the code into the new ones, you will find what's needed for the transclusion, also in my on World Map. :) Good work! (Have removed that thing from my oh-so-large to-do list.) Again, many thanks! -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:55, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :Wait! Better idea … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 16:14, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :Making them templates spares us some categorization and other issues, so :*Template:World map (Siege of Dragonspear) :*Template:World map (Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition) :Template type: Data :Original: Template:World map (Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition) :-- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 16:20, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::We should have a chat going instead... this is getting rediculous just to find where we are writing. Ok about the templates, I would like to use High Definition Maps like the one I just did for BG:EE but could not find any I will see if I can download it through Near Infinity. It will be maybe tonight but probably tomorrow since I procrastinated with these projects instead of doing my thesis...--Mortain87 (talk) 08:19, November 26, 2019 (UTC) ::So I found the source of that world map which is from Ravenslight from Beamdog Forum and asked her/him where she/he got it from or how it was made. Near Infinity gives the resolutions we already have and from the game I don't get the area codes but travel time instead. BTW the map from BG1 is so much nicer! Do you have any suggestions how to get nice high resolution maps for the other two games?--Mortain87 (talk) 09:49, November 26, 2019 (UTC) :::Are you on Discord? :::So, the original BG1EE WORLDMAP.mos has 1,500×1,000, the one used in the map was upscaled. I don't like edited, especially up''scaled images if the source suffices. Currently, it's displayed at a resolution of 600px width only … I don't see why the original files shouldn't be enough then. BDSODMAP.mos has 1,005×1,047 – that not enough? BG2EE WORLDMAP.mos still is 1,470×700, the smallest one then – admitted – only has 675×491, TOBMAP72.mos. :::All, however, need the task of adding the icons to them. If you're working with GIMP, you could use layers to have the background as screenshot from the WMP files and place the MAPICONS.bam on another layer, using the background as placement grid. (Or, if you're more the mathematician, use the coordinates for them.) For the area codes and the names – I hadn't noticed, yet, but why showing the codes on the map if we link to the articles? Shouldn't it rather be displayed as in-game, perhaps with additional names? The font used by the game is Sherwood. :::And I doubt, you'll receive an answer from Islandking – has retired, sorry. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:34, November 26, 2019 (UTC) :::Just noticing: we need two templates for the two BG2 maps, didn't came to my mind earlier, sorry. So split them into – I suggest, to follow other names – "World map (Shadows of Amn (Enhanced Edition))" and "World map (Throne of Bhaal (Enhanced Edition))" (double parentheses don't really matter, they're only templates). With "split" I mean, create the ToB one and move the content to it, then rename the original page to the other name. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:49, November 26, 2019 (UTC) Image sources Hi. Say, where did you pull all the achievement icons from? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:49, November 23, 2019 (UTC) :Actually from a few sources. Many (the ones I collected) I took a screenshot from the steam software. Some of the ones I didn't have I took from the achievement guides you had sent me, but I didn't like that they were in jpg instead of pngs so for BG2 I have almost all from here. Since I upload them all with the multiupload I didn't classify them. Hope that was ok. Actually I think 2 times (so total 20 icons) I had forgotten to select license fairuse... sorry about that too. --Mortain87 (talk) 17:11, November 23, 2019 (UTC) ::Hm… then I guess, I will re-up most of them – from an official source (Steam itself), so that we're safe with copyrights. Those will be JPGs, they're the originals. ::What do you think of this? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 17:30, November 23, 2019 (UTC) :::Most of those images are from Steam, actually they are all from steam since that's the original source anyway, but if you would like to do extra work, I am not holding you back. It took me for ever to screenshot them from the steam software. If you have a faster way of replacing 222 icons let me know how you will do that. It might save me some time in the future then. :::I like the table a lot!!! Especially the hidden feature. Then we could have it all under one page and we could have additional information on how to get it (if it is not super clear) on a separate column. WOW that is cool! Darn it... if I knew what is possible... Thanks for showing me that. Are you planning to combine it soon? Let me know, because I am linking all the achievements to the appropriate sources as well, which will take me a long time. Then you could take the finished version. What do you think? --Mortain87 (talk) 19:16, November 23, 2019 (UTC) ::::I definitely don't have a faster way, ha! :D No, it's just … I'm very fastidious when it's about images on a wiki, love to be able to give a source and so on. So if we source Steam, then we can't use their JPGs that somebody unknown has privately converted to PNGs with no obvious reason. I thought, I'd spare me that work by indeed doing some edits on them: make the dark borders and edges transparent, which would require PNG, but those are too inconsistent and vary from icon to icon, so they stay. ::::And for the point of time and for all the work you've already put in it: sorry, I wasn't aware of that page until today and also found out only during my research how one could get them from the Steam client (before, I thought they were installed locally): go to your achievement page in the client, right click an icon and choose "View Source" – on my system then Notepad opens and shows me the source code, which is a simple HTML page with has also stored the addresses for the images (only the obtained ones, of course). I don't have BG from Steam, though. ::::Thanks for the compliments. Yes, an additional "Notes" column will come in handy. With some "stolen" information from the various guides, perhaps. ;) Okay, no direct copy-pasta, of course. ::::But wait with placing further ones and give me a bit more time. I will create a template for the rows that then also could be used on articles that hold achievements, including the "hidden" feature (which unfortunately doesn't work on mobile view – all is shown there). -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 19:41, November 23, 2019 (UTC) :::::Ok I tried it and it opens notepad with 2000 lines of code... You are more than welcome to change and edit the images. Speaking of the icons by uploading the icons in mass I overlooked the 4 already existing ones. Their names AND resolutions were not consistent anyway and can be deleted. I was not able to update them because some were different file types which did not allow me to upload a new version. :::::So I should not continue with my linking? I was only doing not hidden ones anyway. Bummer the hidden feature does not work on mobile version.--Mortain87 (talk) 20:07, November 23, 2019 (UTC) ::::::You ''can continue with your linking – replacing your code with the template later isn't much work. Just wanted to say that on every addition of yours an edit by me might follow. But it's okay, then I already know where to do so … Will be finished tomorrow, I think – at least not today anymore. Bye. (And congrats for not forgetting the sig this time. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 20:46, November 23, 2019 (UTC) :::::::My code will be different than yours though as I will link them differently. --Mortain87 (talk) 09:03, November 24, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Go on as you wish – I might need a bit more time. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:23, November 24, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::I will continue but holy smokes you went all in! My E-Mail box was overflooded! Impressive though, with redirects and all... wow! Good job! ::::::::::I can tell you, "holy smokes" – what a bunch of work have I chosen there for me, with my perfectionism with images … (and what a bunch of work have you had, that will now be deleted step by step – sorry). ::::::::::Good, your edit on Jaheira and Khalid – there had been the 223rd icon I couldn't find. ::::::::::Yes, the redirects: if every entry (as currently) has its own header, or later an ID in the table, they link directly to the achievement; of course, they can be used as a shortcut, rather than …. If that "anchor" doesn't exist, they still link to the page itself, though to the top. ::::::::::Enough for today. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 20:19, November 24, 2019 (UTC) Section links Hi. Consider the usefulness of linking directly to an article's achievements section – or if it would make more sense to link to the article just in general … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:56, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :I had considered it because there are further links. I can take them out no problem, but I think it makes more sense there especially for huge pages where the user would wonder why he got relinked there. What do you think? ::There are too many for detailed opinions … An example: when I saw your links to "Oathbreaker", I thought it would be better to link to the "fallen" section (if there is any), rather than to the bottom of the class page. And if something is related to Sarevok, why there also link to the bottom, not perhaps to the figure itself? Just some (unreflected) thoughts … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:13, November 25, 2019 (UTC) :::I do understand your point of view as I went through a similar chain of thoughts. The "Oathbreaker" is a good example, because I was thinking of extending the explanation of how to get it but since you were working on how to combine it better I am going to wait for that and leave it out for now. Unfortunately there is no fallen section as otherwise I would have it linked there too. :::I don't understand what you mean with Sarevok. It is linked to the figure itself and it shouldn't be at the bottom but just at the end of Baldur's Gate 1 section. I added in the description that killing him means ending the game. If you have a better idea I am more than welcome for suggestions. :::BTW I am working on the world map!!!--Mortain87 (talk) 13:24, November 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::^ – good to hear! :) ::::Sorry, if I took a wrong example. That's what I meant with "unreflected". And perhaps I'm confusing the links on the achievement pages with those on the connected articles. As said – too many, and not checked in detail … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:43, November 25, 2019 (UTC)